Who vs. Where

Information about mexico ivf treatment
Mexico IVF and Surrogacy - A Valid Option

Going into the Surrogacy World I had some pre-conceived ideas on how things would work and wasn't necessarily flexible on my needs. The list was short, but clear.

My children needed to be born in Southern California. It was limited to LA, Orange County, or San Diego.

That about summed up my needs. I was comfortable with all of the other aspects of the journey and didn't see much need for a lot of concerns about anything else.

Christy, would find a Surro that was easy to work with and friendly and everything would go smooth. No worries from me. I figured that pregnancy was a women's issue and Chisty and the Surro would figure it out together.

Now that I have lived on Surrogacy World for a while my thoughts have changed.
My only demand in the process - where my child was going to be born wasn't a concern anymore.

No longer concerned with where the Child is born we now had a whole world of locations to consider. I looked hard at India and Panama as viable options. The Ukraine and Czech Republic also has low cost options if you want to go to Europe for vacation.

I have even made a list of IVF Costs Worldwide.

I even looked up Surrogacy in Mexico. I thought for sure that Mexico would be a cheap place to go. Surrogacy is not against the law in Mexico. However, there are no laws about Surrogacy in Mexico so if you used a surrogate in Mexico she would have all of the rights as the parent. However, you can bring a United States Surrogate to Mexico and then US laws would apply to the pregnancy,

At the start of the journey I felt that the most important part of the equation was where - as in where is the baby born.

Now, I think that the most important part is the who - as in who are you going on the journey with.

Life as in sports memories fade. The wins and losses start to blur. And what you are left with are the memories of your teammates that joined you along the way.

I talk to much - India, Panama, or the USA

As you start off with a new journey you want to look at all of the options.

India sounds like a good choice after our last go around, you basically have no contact with the surro and the prices are very cheap. You get the experience of traveling the world and an amazing story to tell your children about how far you were willing to go for them.

Some of the down falls are - your traveling the world. Think about flying for at least 15 hours to land in a place like Mexico. And then having to spend over a month there if everything goes well.

Is there a closer option? Well yes,  what Panama offers is almost identical to India and it's a lot closer to home. However, they are just starting out in the IVF vacation field and do you want to be a guinea pig and find out how things will work?

So Panama is out based on the fact that they are to new to the field. India emails me all of the information and looks pretty good. I read a few blogs of people that have gone this way. They all write glowing reports and talk about the great time seeing a new world. This sounds like an option worth looking into.

(Warning: Christy told me that I shouldn't post the next part. She says that I am breaking rule #1. You will need to highlight the area below to read it at your own risk.)

But, the real appeal to me at the time about India is no contact with the surro. It just sounded so peaceful.
I asked myself the question, can I enjoy the pregnancy and be blissfully ignorant the whole time. It actually sounded like a great bonus to me at the time. I didn't see it as a business deal in this situation - it's more like - Hey, I am a guy and women's emotions are tough to deal with and if I can avoid having to deal with them all the better for me.
We were in the middle of an ugly ending with our prior surro. Can any of you blame me for not wanting to go through that again?

Then I find the deal killer for me.

Our children would have an India birth certificate.

What does this mean to them the rest of their life? How do they explain this to people? Does it cause them hassles forever? As adults when they get a drivers license or a passport is it harder for them? How will my choice haunt them later? How does their beginning effect the rest of their life? What is their life story?

At this point in telling the story, I feel like I sound like Carrie Bradshaw from Sex in the City - where I ask myself a bunch of stupid questions while I am writing. And then in my mind, I go back to one of my first posts - where I ask can a guy still sound like a guy and while sharing his thoughts and feelings and I am thinking - no! After only a few posts, I have already lost it and sound like a girl.

However, It's to late to turn back now so let's continue.

During this time I had an epiphany.

Decisions and choices that Christy and I make now - long before our children are born - will define who they are throughout life.

We are not just creating a baby where if they are healthy at birth our job is done. We are creating a person (baby/child/adult all in one)
who has a life story that will define them forever.

WOW!!!

That is a big responsibility. Most people just get pregnant and have a baby where they are without much thought.
We need to make a lot of choices in advance that affect our child's life story. Much more then the normal pregnancy.
Maybe everyone else already new this and I am just a tad slow.

Before two months ago, I never even thought that my children could have any other heritage, however, now I realize that I need American born children.

Here is some boring family history on why this is important to me. You might want to skip down about 6 paragraphs.

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My family has deep roots in this country. We have fought on both sides of the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. My mom has done extensive work on our family history and can tell you many stories.

One of my favorites is about a great-great- grandfather who I believe was living in Missouri during the Civil War. He had a bunch of sons and some were fighting for the North and some the South. One day the Southern Army came to his house and wanted to know which sons were fighting for the North. He wouldn't tell them so they strung him up and hung him - 3 times! It's not the hanging that kills you, it's the snapping of the neck when you drop from a hieght. They would pull him up and then let him down and ask the question again. He would never tell them After the 3rd time they left him hung to the tree and left.
His daughter then came out of the house and cut him down. How many people can say that they were hung 3 times and lived?

My family background in the US is very long. Here is a condensed version.

My Dad's side of the family arrived in the US in:
1823, 1810, 1840, 1800, 1627, 1641, 1617, 1611, 1614, and 1888.

My Mom's side of the family is here forever - we can't find the first person from any family line to enter the US.
Her side of the family is from the South and most of the records were burned during the Civil War.
These are the last relatives that can be traced and they are already in the US.
1799, 1775, 1700, 1715, 1685, 1715, 1685, 1715, 1650, 1625, 1735, 1775, 1761, 1690, 1666, and 1605.

Our children need to be born in the USA to continue this heritage.

*********************************************************

I believe that through surrogacy we can enhance our children's connection to this county and make it even stronger.

Yes, our children will have Christy and my roots and history, plus the additional connection to our country through their Surro.
This extra story that other kids don't get will tie our children closer to our country and give them a unique story to tell.
It is a story that will make them special.

As an example of how I see the relationship grow over time I will use a story about one of Christy's long time friends Noel.
Noel is from Texas and every Christmas she sends Nic and Courtney presents from Texas. They each get an ornament for our
Christmas tree with a Texas theme and some other simple - this is from Texas theme present.

Over the years, this has really connected them to her and Texas.

I see our future children receiving a Christmas ornament every year from their Surro that represents where they are from.
This simple gift would have such deep meaning and grow our child's connection to a different location. Each child's ornament would be from a different place
in the US and we would discuss that part of the country and the Surro. This would be a Family tradition every year.  (Along with the reminder that they came from Santa Claus).

By looking through my (future) adult children's eyes, I see how part of who they are, is formed by the unique way that they were born. The additional people that love them
and helped bring them into the world - add value to their life long after their birth. They will help define who they are and who they will become over the years.

The Surro's will give so much of themselves during this journey and I hope to give them something in return simply by sharing my thoughts. They will give a child life - while I give a few words on a computer screen. It hardly seems like a fair trade.

Right now, we are filled with enthusiasm and excitement to build and grow our team. To start our children's story is a happy time indeed.

Me and My Surro

A poster has questioned my feelings towards my last surrogate.
I tried to make a joke that didn't hit the right tone in one of my prior threads called "what is there not to like about surrogacy". Here is the part of the post in question:

Of course, I don't have a surro at this time, and in the past I have never had a bad experience with my surro. In fact, I love my surro, and all other surro's, at all times. My future surro, whomever she is, is the best.






Anyways, let's get on with this post and explain myself.

Using a point of reference that hopefully everyone can understand, I would say that our first relationship with a surrogate was very much like your relationship with your first boyfriend/girlfriend. It starts out all rosy with everyone happy for you and lots of good feelings. You hit a rough spot and try to work through it. Then times get tough and you don't want to let go and move on after all of the time that has been invested. You hold on longer then you should. And it finally ends in a public mess with friends taking sides.

There are good times, and bad times in the relationship. And I guess the question is: When the relationship is over what part of it do you keep with you?

I think being an athlete I learned that to win you need to have a mental eraser. You learn from your mistakes but you don't take the mistake into the future. You take the lesson, but not the mistake. The mistake gets erased so you don't get caught up in why the ball didn't get through the hoop last shot - rather the focus is to take another shot and how you will make it next time.

The first time around the block I am sure that I was as involved as your normal IF. I was at most of the appointments and was involved with all of the medical decisions and there every step of the way. The IVF part of the procedure I was there 100%.

Then you get into the "girl talk" part of the equation . As the talk turned to other topics such as pregnancy, other people and their relationships, or where strangers where in their journey and I was a fish out of water.

It was very much like two little girls playing dolls, as they planned the pregnancy and talked about baby dress up and having a great time. While I played cars on the other side of the room. We were all playing together, but not necessarily the same game.

So what did I learn and how is the lesson helping me move forward?

I have learned that I am not having the experience of a pregnancy. I am experiencing surrogacy. And sure, through the surrogate I can experience the pregnancy, but not in the same way I would/could if Christy was the one being pregnant.

There are really two options for me. I can be a supportive 3rd wheel to the situation and let the women gather together and plan the details as they have a "girls only" friendship. Or I can become involved as much as an IF can and fully embrace the situation - as awkward as that might be at times.

The main point is that this journey will be my children's life story forever. I can set the tone before the next journey starts by fully embracing every aspect of the experience, sharing my thoughts on the process, and acknowledging how special the surrogates are that help complete a family.

Because without all of us working together as a team - my children will never have a story to tell.

Jimmy V and the Smurf's

I think that I see the smurf's different than some of the other posters. I don't see any of them only posting in smurf threads - they are actually all over the message boards and are amazingly well rounded and thoughtful in their posts. They bring a special attitude to the board that helps take away some of the stress that we face everyday on Surrogacy World.

When thinking about the Smurf's I am reminded of a speech by a basketball coach. Stick with me - this is not another dumb sports story.

This is one of the best speeches ever. They play it ever year at the start of basketball season. I could watch it every day - and tear up every time. Yes, it is that moving.

Watch the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePXlkqkFH6s

Jim Valvano was a basketball coach that was diagnosed with metastatic bone cancer at age 46 and died a year later. Weeks before he passed away he announced the start of a new foundation at an ESPN awards banquet. The motto of the organization would be "Don't give up. Don't ever give up".

One particularly poignant section of Valvano's speech is as follows:

To me, there are three things we all should do every day. We should do this every day of our lives. Number one is laugh. You should laugh every day. Number two is think. You should spend some time in thought. And Number three is, you should have your emotions moved to tears, could be happiness or joy. But think about it. If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special."


I see the Smurf's do this everyday. They are happy for a person on one thread that got good news that day, they think about how to help a friend get through their journey, they cry with someone else that is struggling, and then they go to Smurf Land and laugh.

That's a heck of a day!!!!!!!! They have something special!!!!!!

Surro's and Basketball

Being new to posting I am the one who broke the rule recently by mentioning that it exists. Oops!

I will compare this to my experience as a basketball coach and then an administrator for my basketball program. I started a few basketball teams and coached them all (this is how I meet Christy). I had a very happy program and never got any complaints.

My program grew and grew to the point that I needed to hire coaches to coach the extra teams. From my own success as a coach I turned into an administrator of the program. My coaches where all high school coaches and we were coaching 3rd-8th graders so my staff was highly qualified.

As the administrator my experience changed the parents started to come up to me and complain about their child's experience and how frustrated they were with the coach. Later, I would talk to the coach about the situation and they would be confused. They would say - that parent loves what I am doing and they are my biggest supporter. They would ask me if I was sure that I was talking about the right parent.

I couldn't understand the disconnection that I felt from the coaches perspective and the administrators view that I now had. I felt that my program was falling apart and I didn't know why. My coaches were having the same relationship with the parents that I had - where everything was going great.

The coaches were blissfully unaware that the parents had any issues or concerns at all and thought everyone was extremely happy. And I was hearing all of the grumbling from the parents and watching my program struggle.

Finally, one parent said something to me that made me understand what was happening. She told me that she didn't want to bother me with the situation and would talk to the coach - but - she didn't want to get the coach upset with her and then have the coach take it out on the child.

As the administrator I was a safe person to talk to about her concerns. She could share them with me and then I could share them to the coach without attaching them to an individual child or parent.

The parent could get her feelings and concerns across without tainting her child to the coach who was in charge of her child's experience. This allowed the coach to get the information through a buffer. And the parent/child/coach relationship could still be healthy.

In this situation, it is not a balance of power that is hanging on the line and the parents don't feel out of control. Nobody's life is at stake. The parents are just trying to figure out how they can make sure that their child has the best experience possible playing basketball. And will do anything in thier power to make that happen.

Some of them even bring the coach cookies......

It's time to name our Surro's...

Now that I have your attention.

I need your help naming our Surro's. Since we don't have them now I need to come up with name's for them. Our future Surro's just doesn't have a good ring to it.

You girls play the baby name game all of the time so you have some practice at this activity. So instead of name that baby - let's name those surro's.

I was thinking of giving them each the name's of a fertility goddess. It seems like a good fit. Below are some examples, but feel free to nominate your own name. Either way be sure and tell us why we should use your names.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertility_goddess
Fertility goddess names

The fertility goddesses are the female deities to watch over and promote fertility, pregnancy, and birth in many polytheistic cultures.


List of fertility goddesses and related deities and individuals

* Ajysyt
* Ala
* Ama-arhus
* Aphrodite
* Arianrhod
* Artemis
* Astarte
* Bast
* Bendis
* Brigid
* Cybele
* Epona
* Freyja
* Frigg
* Gefjun
* Hathor
* Haumea
* Heget
* Hera
* Ilithyia
* Inanna
* Ishtar
* Isis
* Ixchel
* Juno
* Macha
* Mami
* Mesenet
* Mylitta
* Nanshe
* Nekhebet
* Ninhursag
* Pi-Hsia-Yuan-Chun
* Pukkeenegak
* Renenutet
* St. Anne
* St. Catherine of Sweden
* St. Margaret the Virgin
* St. Monica
* Serket
* Sophia
* Tawaret
* Tellus
* Tlazolteotl
* Uma
* Venus

Loss of Control

My biggest issue with surrogacy is loss of control.

We have not gone all the way to a live birth so I have not experienced an entire journey first hand, but you hear stories of out of control surro's. I am sure that it's just like the nightly news where the wildest story gets the headline - but the headlines play into your fears.

Once those embroy's are transfered all sense of control is lost. They were safe and protected in the petri dish. Now they are loose in the womb and struggling to survive. You want to help them settle in and find a safe home for the next few months, but you are helpless and can't help them. I would offer to hold them in place - but that would be really awkward!

You only have one source for communication with them and that is through your surro. What did she say? How did she say it? What was the meaning behind her words? Sure she said this, but what did she really mean? Can you break the code and find out what is really going on? When did the surro start speaking in pig latin?

It's like going to the twilight zone and another person is in charge of your emotions and you are just along for the ride.

As an IP you now have a new GOD to worship. Or at least as close to one as a human can be. Well, maybe not a new GOD, it's actually the same one, but he has moved and he now lives in your surro's belly and your mission in life is to make him happy so that your baby will grow. You can only make him happy by making your surro happy.

What can you sacrifice to the surro today? Anything and Everything will be tried. The cargo she is carrying is priceless and must be protected at all times. As an IP your only means to protect your child is to make sure that every need and want of the surro is answered.

Once that baby is growing in her belly the balance of power in the relationship is lopsided.

It is like riding a teeter-totter (also known as seesaw) with someone that outweighs you by 1,000 pounds. You are at their mercy - they can throw you in the air or slam you to the ground in an instant. And you have to smile back and enjoy the ride the whole time.

The disclaimer:
Now of course, I am speaking hypothetically, this is a fictional story that doesn't have anything to do with any real ips. No real ips were hurt in the telling of this story.

Of course, I don't have a surro at this time, and in the past I have never had a bad experience with my surro. In fact, I love my surro, and all other surro's, at all times. My future surro, whomever she is, is the best.

About our surro's

We have already raised two kids together so I understand the difference between coaching kids and parenting. We have gone through the ups and downs of raising children and are ready for another go.

This is not a decision that we are making lightly. We have talked this over with many people in the surrogacy world. Women that have not just scene the good times and the bad, but lived it for themselves.

The journey will not be for the meek of heart. Someone that needs to be the center of attention need not apply. Someone that is always needing others to validate them need not apply. If you enjoy drama daily you need not apply.

Basically, this journey needs the best of the best. I think that only 1-2% of the surro's out there are ready for this situation.

Our surro's will need to be very mature and be very comfortable in their own skin.
They know who they are and are happy. Someone who has lived in the surrogacy world for a long time so that she knows what to expect.

These would be very special women with high emotion intelligence that can share their feelings without losing them and work with a group. They need to be leaders in their own right and have a high level of self-esteem.

They will glow with excitement for our babies and fill them daily with happy vibes.

They will bring their own prior success to our journey and radiate positive emotions.

It is only through the strength of these women that my family will grow.

Will the kids be equals?

We were told about the worse case scenario and asked how we could give parental support to all of the children. Here is my answer.

We can't base all of our choices just on the odds. Our first set of twins had a 95% chance of reaching a live birth after having heart beats and neither of them made it. Also, if we lived our life in fear of the worse case scenario we wouldn't be moving forward at all. Since so far IVF has sucked for us!!!!

Our worse case scenario is not having too many kids - it's having none. That is our reality.

I am not sure where the lack of parental attention would come from. I have never seen John and Kate plus 8.

Let me give you my background with kids. For the last 20 years I have run youth sports leagues as business. I am usually working with about 300 kids at a time and during the winter it's over 1,000 and I pretty much know them all. Normally, I coach basketball and see about 20 kids per hour for 4 hours a night. I know them all by name and their parents.

Before that I have coached Little League, flag football, girls volleyball, Boys and Girls Varsity Basketball, track and field, I have been a swimming instructor, Life Guard, and T-Ball coach.

I have run after-school sports programs and summer camps. I worked for 2 years at a pre-school and worked with an after-school program, also with Children's World. For two summers, I went around to pre-schools (2 per day) and taught the kids a Red Cross Water Safety program. I was a camp counselor with the YMCA.

That's my background in working with kids in large groups that just came to mind without giving it much thought.

Then through in that Christy has worked as a teacher and runs a cheer business where she coaches 10-30 kids.

So we have a large background on working with many kids. I know that it's not the same as having your own kids, but it's pretty close. Also, ask anyone that's meet us how their kids respond to us.

In fact, I think that having multiple kids at the same age would make things so much easier. For example, one of the major problems for parents is that all of their kids are in different activities and normally, the youngest kids go at the earlier times and the oldest go at the later times. This makes parents stick around for long periods of times. Our kids would all be in the same group or at least the same time frames.

Christy has two kids already and we have been raising them together for years. When Courtney entered high school she complained that she could not date any boys because they all knew me. As a matter of fact I had them all listed in my database with their address, home phone, moms cell, dads cell, and email address.

In short, we have been very active in their lives. When Nic and Courtney were growing up we were the main house that all of the kids came to play. All of the parents knew us well and felt comfortable leaving their children with us on a regular basis.

The one thing that I know from coaching a lot of kids is that when the kids are 18 months or less apart they can play together and compete at the same level and this makes them easy to work with as a unit. Once the kids are 3 years apart they are no longer peers. At that point one of them takes on the caretaker - babysitter role. They are no longer equals.

Another problem that many parents have is that their different age kids go to different schools. Each school is on a different bell schedule. This makes driving and picking up their kids an hour activity alone every morning and afternoon. Then throw in the places where the middle school is year round and the elementary school isn't so each kids is out of school at different times.

I see school, sports, and social activities would all be on a matching schedule making our life easier and allowing us more time with our kids than just playing taxi.

Their verbal, social, and physical skills would all be near each other allowing them to be peers and have stronger relationships with each other throughout life.

I truly see a lot of positives.

Two surro's for us please!

We are expecting to have two surro's on our next journey if we can find the right combination of personalities.

Based on the size of the family we desire and out time frame this was our doctor's suggestion.

Personally, we are big sharers so I don't see it being a secret - just the opposite - I think it is a unique and
special journey that I want to let everyone enjoy. Maybe you have noticed - we will tell you who we are and what we are about - besides do we really have any privacy in the surro world?

Here are a few of our reason's.

We have already been down this road with no success for about 2 years. At this time we have about an 18 month
window to use Christy's eggs and we want 4-5 babies. Any failed cycle takes away 2 months.

At our age in the system we have a 35% chance of a live birth with a fresh transfer. This goes below 10% with a
frozen cycle. With our last tries both of our fresh babies stuck, while none of the frozen stood a chance. Basically,
we have been told that our eggs do not survive the freeze well so we need to use them as fresh.

So for us it really comes down to two surro's for Jon and Christy to have our family be our (DNA) family!!
Based on our eggs we have to move now.

That is the scientific reason and then I have a more personal reason.

Christy and I both had great relationships with our grandparents growing up and I want my children to have that
some opportunity that I had to know their grandparents. My parents are great people and my children will
be very special for them. My children deserve the chance to know them and have a relationship with them.

If we had one baby at a time my children would never get the opportunity to know their grandparents and would miss
out on one of the best relationships they could ever have in their life.

The fact that we want two surro's is a large reason that my number one criteria for our surro's is a high level of emotional intelligence.
Emotional Intelligence describes an ability, capacity, or skill to perceive, assess, and manage the emotions of one's self, of others, and of groups.

With a high level of emotional intelligence my ideal surro can analyze and process the feelings, (in the good and bad times) of herself, her friends, her family and us - and then manage them so that we can all go on a positive rewarding journey together.

Besides, I look at the reward on the other side. I have a large family that could help us with a large family. My mom and Aunt will fight over who gets to take care of the babies. Like they will ever be able to get them away from Christy.

There are so many great things that will come from having my children grow up together. Their friendship will be so special. They each will have their own special story and wonderful person that gave birth to them. I just see tons of positives for my children throughout their life by having two surro's.

Who is my ideal Surrogate?

Actually, I have two people that are my ideal surrogate -
or at least I need to combine two people to make my perfect surrogate.

My perfect surro would be a combination of Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

I would like to just pick Santa Claus since he has a lot of great qualities. He is always happy and very prompt
with delivery. And best of all his gifts are free. He does have some negatives though. I am not very comfortable with a
bearded guy carrying my child. He also has a BMI issue and a very poor diet of cookies. Also, his red face could be signs
of a drinking problem.

The tooth fairy would be a good pick, however, she does want body parts back in return and I am scared about which one she might want.
She is very sneaky how she takes things from under you when you are sleeping - I am not 100% sure she is trustworthy. It seems that she
has a BMI problem of her own in that she is very skinny and I don't think she is big enough to carry my child.

So if we could combine the best qualities of these two I would have my ideal surrogate.

That is the problem with surrogacy - even in my fantasy world I can't find one person who is perfect.

When I first started out I was thinking what would be the qualities of my ideal surrogate and I thought that I wanted someone
that would be like a coffee machine. It would keep the baby warm and develop it slowly one drop at a time. Then it would light
up a red light when finished with the baby. We could then clean her up and put her away until we were ready to make our next baby.

Then I had this idea, that the ideal candidate would be an 18 year old runaway with no friends or family. We could keep her in a back room and watch her every move
while we made sure that she was feed her vitamins and ate healthy everyday.

Or a more recent thought - we could go to India and have 5 surro's at once. The surro's are cheap there so you can get a bunch. With the odds we have of getting to a live birth most likely only one would get pregnant and have a live birth. We don't know them, don't have to talk to them, and get the baby at the end. That sounds pretty safe emotionally since you don't have to deal with the surro on a daily basis. You just get the reward at the end without all of the headaches.

Then when you talk to the clinic you find out that they keep all of the surro's in the same dorm rooms. It sounds like a bad reality show locking a bunch of pregnant women in the same room. Can you imagine Survivor (pregnant) Island meets the Bachelor? You do know that in the Bachelor when the guy picks it never works out.

How do you describe the perfect surro - that is like answering describe your perfect mate. The answer changes as you change. People's life change on a regular basis and you can't
freeze time and go there - that persons circumstances are perfect we will take her. Because tomorrow her life might change - with out a doubt getting pregnant will change her life.

After watching this process many times and seeing the ins and outs of relationships during other people's journey's. I have come to a major conclusion.

I have one must have with my ideal surrogate.
Here it is: She must have an extremely high level of Emotional Intelligence.

I am sure if I haven't lost you yet, I have lost you now. The answer is supposed to be something easy to see or track like location, insurance, and the same background as me right???
And I will admit that those are all important - However, the journey is really going to play out at the emotional level.

I am talking about the relationship with my surro that is the most important part of the trip. I must assume that she is healthy and can carry our baby. So what is important to me - the relationship is the top priority. We have already determined that getting pregnant is going to change her life - having a relationship with us in her life daily will change her life. We will be making medical choices for her body. Can you get anymore invasive???? So in the end we are an agent for change in her life. Her ability to handle change is another very high need of mine.

Let me give you my definition of Emotional Intelligence.

Emotional Intelligence describes an ability, capacity, or skill to perceive, assess, and manage the emotions of one's self, of others, and of groups.

With a high level of emotional intelligence my ideal surro can analyze and process the feelings, (in the good and bad times) of herself, her friends, her family and us - and then manage them so that we can all go on a positive rewarding journey together.

We have a pig in the Family.

This story was originally posted by Christy on expect miracles.

Jon's mom and I were chatting today and she was asking if I am an "IM" is Jon the "IP" ....I told her that technically Jon is a "PIF" but hopes to become an "IF" and that I am a "PIM" and hope to be an "IM". Together we are currently "PIP"s.

A little while later out of the blue she says I'm an "IG" and I corrected her, she is a "PIG"


So now she is telling people she is a proud PIG heartbeat.gif Only in the surrogacy world would anyone get this! rotfl%5B1%5D.gif rotfl%5B1%5D.gif

How do you feel about the necessity of taking this journey?

This is a question that I have to answer.

I am going to repeat the question here so everyone knows where I am starting from.
How do you feel about the necessity of taking this journey?


I don't have an infertility problem - unless you want to call Christy a problem.

I actually signed up for this journey and thought that it was a great idea at the time. I actually told Christy it was what I wanted to do before she even thought about it as an option. She told me she was infertile and I said "great"!!

After going through all of the trials and tribulations I am even more excited about building my family through IVF and surrogacy. I truly believe that it's a better idea now than in the beginning, but for completely different reasons.

Yes, I know what your thinking - every family has a crazy one - and we found him.

At the start of the process I am thinking what is not to like about IVF and surrogacy. From the media stories you get some ideas in your head - okay - I can pick the day that my child's conceived, it's sex, height, eye color, birthday, have it free of disease, Choose if I want 1, 2, 3, or more babies at a time. Add in the fact that I get to knock up some random girl that I don't know, care to know, need to know, or respect in the morning. Then for the bonus round - I don't have to live with a hormonal pregnant woman for 9 months and I get the perfect baby that I ordered at the end. That is the happy story (guys view) with a happy ending. It sounds easy enough. You throw some money at a doctor and walk away with a baby 9 months later.

Tell me - what's not to like about that way to have a baby? Yes, I know - still crazy - but still moving forward.
Do you really wonder why more guys don't post on this board?

Okay, I understand that fantasy time doesn't last long in the IVF world, except for the smurf zone, so let's do a little more research and find out what we are really getting ourselves into for our journey.

So you want to order a baby????? Sure you can place an order, however, the menu is al a carte and everything has an additional cost. Oh wait it gets even better, you can pay in full and only have a small chance of having a baby. Think about this - you save up your money and go buy a brand new car with cash. Two weeks later you go back to the car dealership to get your car and the dealer tells you that there is no car for you, sorry, and he can't tell you why there is no car for you. For some, the dealership will give you the car for a few weeks and then take it back in the middle of the night with no explanation. But hey, if you give the dealer more money he will see if he can get you a new car this time with lower odds.

Alright, research and reality time.

The fun begins with the fact that the process is estimated to be $80,000 - $100,000 for a singleton birth. So if I want 5 kids and we have them one at a time it is going to cost $400,000 - $500,000 to build our family!!!! And by the way, your eggs expire soon so we need to do this today!!!! You can wait to tomorrow if you want, but your odds of being successful go down everyday. Talk about a ticking clock.

That's expensive so we are going to just bury our head in the sand and move forward. Well at least finding the surro will be easy. We will look at the Catalog and just pick one. What do you mean that's not how it works. Your going to tell be that we have to use a human, but she has emotions, feelings, opinions, a husband, kids, friends a life.

So as a couple we need to match with another couple to have our baby. Whoa!!! I sure expect everything to go smooth in this relationship.

Well, this is going down hill fast for me, but I can still build the perfect child with PGD. We get to pick which embryo to implant and who lives. We get to choose the best one with the best chance of being genetically superior. Out of every fantasy that I had this one is the biggest BS. Going through IVF we get to know more details in advance then others, but in the end GOD still picks who sticks.

Let's see if I can win this one. I get to control the date of birth. Nope throw in a failed transfer, or two, or three, and you are months off schedule. Then a singleton and twins have different dates. No luck here either.

All that aside, I still get the advantage of not having to live with a hormonal pregnant women for 9 months. At least one thing will break in my favor, right? Well I don't even get that one in my favor. We have so many women in our life that are trying, wanting, currently are, or just finished being pregnant in our daily life it is amazing. We live on pregnancy island.

Everything positive I ever expected from IVF and Surrogacy have been taken away from me and I have just been left with the bill. Is this really a good idea?

Yet, I still think that this journey is the best way that I could ever build my family. My thoughts have changed from juvenile personal interests to what is truly best for my children.

For us, there are no "oops there it is" babies. These children will only arrive through a long hard fight and the love of many. Our children are known all over the world already. Everyone on this board already knows our children. Our children get to live a life the begins much earlier than babies born through a normal pregnancy. That makes them unique and special.

As a kid, I remember taking family trips across the country and we would stop in different states and see family members who always said "I knew you as a baby". Just imagine the trips that we will be able to take our kids on. And the "I knew you when stories" that they will have to here for their entire life. How much fun will it be to torture them???

I look at the amount of people that are cheering our children on and think how special is that for them. Most normal babies have only a few friends and family members that are rooting for them. I actually feel sorry for them.

Most of the time a normal family that has 4-5 kids will have the kids about 18 months apart. That makes the oldest child much older then the youngest child. I have two older siblings that are 7 and 9 years older then me. They were more like a second set of parents instead of siblings.

Through IVF we could have our whole family born within a short time of each other. This will allow our kids to have the bonds of twins, while still being individuals with their own birthdays. I think of them group up together as great friends with a fun inside joke that they will play their entire life. It would go something like "we have the same mom and dad, but we are only born a few months apart".

I look at the amount of people willing to help our children and see that they are already blessed. Christy and Mike wanted to help us have a baby. They made a choice to join us on the roller coaster called IVF and surrogacy. I can't imagine the sacrifice that takes or the stress it would add to a family. Through all of this journey the only negative part to me is that they had to go through our struggles and pain.
I appreciated their efforts and wish them well.



I am going to repeat the question here so everyone knows where I am ending.
How do you feel about the necessity of taking this journey?

I fully embrace the necessity of this journey. It's not simply about making the perfect baby to me anymore. This journey is my children's life story. Through their close relationship to each other from being born so near each other. To the love that they get from people all over the US that knew them long before they were born.

The most important thing in a child's life is to be loved. In a normal birth this might be limited to friend and family, plus the husband and wife for a total of maybe 5-20 people. Through the strength of Christy's Love for our children they already have many times that number loving them. That makes all of the money spent on IVF and surrogacy worth it!!!!


So I started this by asking - is Christy the problem?

When the truth is - she is the answer! Through the love of their mother our children will be born and this journey will define them.
In my thoughts, we will be going on a pre-birth journey that will last about a year. While for our Children this will be their journey forever.

I Have Found A New Home.

Well here I am moving into my new home. It is located on IVF land on Surrogacy World. Originally, I thought that I would visit for a short time and pick up a baby. Our more likely, have an extended stay as I build a complete family.

Now after a few tries without a child it is clear that I am moving into IVF land for the long haul. From reading other Blogs it seems like the thing to do at a certain point in the IVF struggle.

I am a little concerned about posting a blog about my journey. IVF Land and Surrogacy World is dominated by women and the few men that speak seem to be damaged or at least a little twisted.

I guess the first question that I have is can a man stay a man while talking about his thoughts and feelings? Also, can I really share a man's point of view without creating a backlash from the women who define the experience?

Read First

As a first time reader you are going to be scratching your head at many of the first 20 posts on this blog.

They were posted on a message board and many of them were answering questions that are not backed up with information in the answer or on this blog.

I am building a whole world here at IVF Land and Surrogacy World. It is filled with interesting people and wild stories. As you can imagine it takes a long time to tell the story of an entire world and we will grow and develop the story line over time.

You will learn more about the characters in due time and now that we are further along in the adventure this blog will be the main home for our adventure.

In the meantime, you need to know that this story is interactive and your comments and questions will help us share a deeper side to the journey. And help you learn more about IVF Land on Surrogacy World.

We look forward to hearing from you!