Mr. Excited

Mr. Excited has arrived on the scene. He is the happy go lucky guy that is ready to take on any new adventure. He doesn't see how anything can go wrong and wants to "damn the torpedoes, go full speed ahead."

We know the odds now, (way to well) so how do we use them to our advantage? Let's double our odds by doubling our surrogates. The math seems really simple.

Sure having all of the people involved can make things complicated, but Mr. Excited just wants to hear about the results - not the complications.

We have One goal. One Mission. AND One Obsession.

So with our eyes firmly on the prize we are moving forward with a new Adventure of a Lifetime. We have built a new team to join us and are ready and excited about moving forward again.

We have named our surrogates Ajysyt and Isis. To give them their privacy on the web. Also, it just seemed like a lot of fun to keep people guessing.

Our goal is to share this story with everyone. To accomplish this we have started a new blog so that you can meet all of the players.:

A Tale of Two Surro's

The Book

When we first went to our RE. Dr. Zouves he gave us a book that he wrote called Expecting Miracles. Yes, that is a very interesting name.

Anyways, I remember looking at the book when we first got started and thinking - I can't read this book. All of these people have same serious problems and that's not us. Besides, I don't want to hear the hard luck stories and the struggles someone else has gone through.

Just give me the success stories, because that is how we are going to storm through IVF. As one big long success story.

We just stumbled upon the book again recently and have been reading the stories and understand them for the first time. We read the book and go - I remember when we faced that problem.

Their stories have become our story.

It is amazing how your viewpoint changes when you have become one of them.

Mr. Oddsmaker

Now it's time for Mr. Oddsmaker to show up at the door. I like him. He is a good friend of mine and we go way back.

Mr. Oddsmaker is very informal. In our first conversation he's "like dude this IVF thing is not about you, it's all in the odds. You know that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but you got to play to win."

After talking to him I start to consider that he is on to something very important to remember. The odds are what they are no matter who you are. There is no such thing in IVF of - hey I am very deserving and have waiting my turn in line - where is my baby.

There is no obstacle course that you can say - hey, I have passed every test - where is my baby.

It really just comes down to - how many times do I need to attempt IVF to - have my baby arrive?

The Odds, are the Odds, are the Odds. You can't change them. You just need to learn what they are and accept them.

There are two other blogs that deal with this very well. First, you have babysmiling talks about the odds being a coin flip.

Then murgdan talks about the odds as rolling dice.

These are both very true analogies.

I am a sports guy though so it always comes back to sports. I have been trained my entire life to accept failure as par for the course. The misses, the mistakes, the errors, the strike outs, and the losses do not define you as a player.

What defines you is simply did you play with honor, did you enjoy the competition, and did you win the game.

You see players all of the time struggle through tough times and adversity and then at the end they pull it all together and get the job done.

If you watched the Olympic games recently, you will not find one Gold medal winner that doesn't tell a story about all of the adversity and struggles they had to go through to achieve their dream.

You just need to keep you eye on the prize, the win, the baby.

With a new found vision Mr. Oddsmaker - meet - Mr. Excited.

Mr. Vulnerable

Mr. Vulnerable is an idiot and doesn't get to stay around long. Sure he gets a short visit occasionally, but he gets a quick kick in the butt and told to leave.

After 3 transfers and no live birth he made an unannounced visit and stayed past his welcome.

He asked all kids of questions about where the problems where in our relationships with IVF and surrogacy. You know - who's fault is it. That's what Mr. Vulnerable likes to do best, he likes to point fingers and place blame.

Mr. Vulnerable is an idiot - he doesn't have any good qualities.

He does talk a good game though at times and he reels you in and grabs you. Tells you that you need to go over everything and find out where you went wrong.

So - we look at all of the facts and realize - scientifically speaking - we didn't do anything wrong. Even our Doctor warns you going in that this is a roller coaster ride and you need to be mentally prepared.

I really think it's more like Mr. Toads wild ride then a roller coaster.

Either way, we are on the ride, let's keep moving.

Mr. Vulnerable is an idiot, he is shown his way out the door - Now meet - Mr. Oddsmaker.

Mr. Invincible

When we started this trip onto IVF Land on Surrogacy World I was sure it was going to work for us on the first try. No doubt in my mind.

You see, we don't have a fertility problem, we have a carrying problem.

It just seems so simple - take my healthy sperm, add Chrsty's perfect eggs, and add one healthy uterus and say the magic word and "BAM" there is a healthy baby. What could go wrong?

So here we go:

Sperm - GREAT.
Eggs 30 - GREAT.
Embryo's - GREAT.
Lining - GREAT.
Fresh Transfer 2 perfect Embryo's - GREAT.
Pee Stick's - GREAT.
First Beta - GREAT.
Second Beta - GREAT.
Third Beta - GREAT.
First Ultrasound - GREAT.
Second Ultrasound heartbeats - GREAT.

Then - we meet our sworn enemy Mr. SCH.

That is the end of our great news.

We take a break and regroup.

Second Transfer Frozen

Third Transfer Frozen

No more Embryo's. Just like in pinball - you lose three times and it's game over. Please insert more money to play again.

Mr. Invincible - meet - Mr. Vulnerable. 

You'll Be Ready For IVF My Son!

Here is a classic poem by Kipling that can easily be used to describe my experience with IVF and Surrogacy. You just need to change the last line to - You'll Be Ready For IVF and Surrogacy My Son!

Rudyard Kipling


If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

What Do They Say?

This is a post from Christy. It is in reply to the question "What do your friends and family think about you going through IVF and Surrogacy?"

I would say for the most part it has been VERY positive and supportive.

Here is my list-

My mom- Very supportive but a little concerned someone wants to keep our baby.

My dad- hmmmmmm?? no comment but I have not talked to him directly about it (just my step-mom) But I know he LOVES LOVES LOVES babies and will be thrilled to fall in love again.

My step-mom- horrified HAHAHAH but not so much by surrogacy I think but more so as to why anyone would ever want more than one child in the first place! HAHAHA She said some bad words and basically told me I was stupid. I mentioned to her Jon has never had children and she told me that was his problem and not mine! HAHAHAHA. I followed that up with mention that I have always wanted more children and I have never gotten over not being able to have more. Again, choice words about how stupid I am. (yes, I know she isn't a big kid person so laughed at her and let it go)

My brother and wife - 100% supportive and excited for us.

My sister (mom of 8 kids) - Supportive but struggles with ethics of IVF. She knows she pops out another baby every 14 months or so and clearly has never had to face what I am so she tries to not to let her struggle with the ethical side come into play of her supporting us. I love that she tells me parts she struggles with so we can discuss it and I can tell her the choices we make with IVF and why.

My sister #2- Can't have a baby fast enough for her to love and cuddle.

Jon's mom- 200% supportive. She just wants a new grandbaby to baby to love. Would love even more for us to have more than one so she knows she get can pry one out of my arms and have a turn too.

Jon's dad and Stepmom- Very very excited and hopeful!!!

Jon's sister- As much as it has been explained I don't think she really gets it. Example- After going through all the whys we need to do this and the how's (including I DON'T HAVE A UTERUS) She said, "can I ask you one thing?" "will you just take some time and really consider doing it yourself?" Me- "myself?" "as in what myself?" Her- "will you consider carrying and being pregnant for yourself" Me- "you mean you want me to consider getting pregnant for Jon and not finding a surrogate?" Her- "yes" Me- "as I said, I don't have a uterus" Her- "so you won't consider it?" Me- ?????????.

Noelle (my best friend)- Supportive but I think a little baffled how consumed by this mission we have become. Many of my other friends I've drifted some from during this life consuming mission. They are all supportive but also a bit annoyed my life focus has shifted so far from what they understand. We are still close but it isn't the same as it was before.

My business clients- A bit annoyed by the time and energy they feel I give this baby mission that takes me away from my job but VERY supportive of us possibly having a baby. They were all 100% supportive and cheering us on until last Fall when they saw how much time it took me away from me being there for their every whim.

Most of the new friends I have made in the couple years are all surrogacy related so they are very supportive as we are all on the same mission.

I See Pregnant Women....And Small Children

Since we are talking about other blogs that inspire a post I will point to Xbox4NappyRash: The seventh sense in which he talks about developing a 7th sense - the ability to see infertile people.

I got it a little different - I See Pregnant Women....And Small Children.

When I was a small child I would go to the beach and see other small children. Others like me to play with in the sand.

Then as I got a little bit older I became interested in the basketball court near the beach and was aware of the other basketball players that where on the court.

As a got still older, I became aware of the girls in the bikini's at the beach. All of a sudden they were everywhere - and they were the only ones on the beach.

Recently, when I go to the beach I see Pregnant Women....And Small Children all over the place.

I constantly have to work hard not to step on them as they play in the surf. These young families are new to the beach. They have never been there before now - yet now they are all of the place.

You see the mom with the stroller and the new born, the Dad with the shade umbrella and the child sleeping, the twins that are dressed alike, the family with all of their kids in white shirt getting ready for the family photo at sunset.

Where did they all come from?

Mr. Inspiring

Check it out! Someone thinks that I am inspiring.

Really! go to Our Surrogacy Adventure and read how I inspired her post, but notice that I didn't inspire her enough to be added to her blogroll.

This is what I am talking about when I say that we meet new friends on our adventure. This would be a prime example.

Take note, if you women that are reading my blog want me to post more that is how you get it done - stroke my ego. Men really are that simple.

Now here is my response to the heart of her post - why do I blog?

This is the point when almost everyone says "so that friends and family can follow our journey".

That's not me.

I want my family to be able to enjoy the excitement of our new addition and don't want to take them on the rollercoaster ride with us. They are really supportive, but we have to go through enough already without taking our entourage with us every step of the way. We just want to give them the happy days.

So then, who is the audience that I want to reach?

  • Current Intended Parents - Other couples that are on the same path as us.
  • Future Intended Parents - Newbies that are looking to other that have been there to guide them.
  • Our Surrogates - Who deserve to hear the Intended Fathers perspective.
  • All other Surrogates - Who deserve to hear a Man's view of how they help build a family.

Why did I start this blog?

Simply put, so many people that we have meet over the internet have come to support us through our struggles. They have volunteered to fight our fight and get in the trenches with us to join our cause.

The support had been so overwhelming that I felt it was my responsibility to join the conversation. I really wasn't sure how to go about doing that though.

At first, I started to post on a message board and that was a little weird. It was like sneaking into the girls locker room as the only male. Without the joy of all of the girls being naked. Except, when you figure that most of the girls on the message board are pregnant the naked part is really weird - so no part of the message board was a good fit for me.

That sent me packing to find my own blog site. To find a home for my thoughts.

As more and more people have jumped on our bandwagon to support us I realized that our team wasn't just the two of us and our surrogate.

  • Our team has grown to include everyone else on Surrogacy World.
  • Our team is larger than I ever imagined.
  • Our team continues to grow on a daily basis.

As our team has blossomed before our eyes, so has our responsibilities.

We are required to share our story to help others along their path. To help them know that they are making the right decision for their family. To let them know that they are not alone with their thoughts about their struggle.

To help the next person the way others have helped us.

That is how I ended up here posting on a blog for the whole world to read.

Tale of Two Worlds

When the Intended parent and Surrogate get involved in the process they normally hear two entirely different comments from friends, family, and strangers.

The Surrogates hear:
Your going to build a family for someone.
Your going to give the gift of life.
You are so special for doing that for someone.
And you get paid - what a bonus.

The Intended Parents hear:
Isn't that expensive?
How are you coming up with the money?
It seems so unnatural does it really work?
Do you really need more children?
Why don't you adopt?
What is so important about your DNA?
Is she going to keep the baby?
The baby is not really yours.
Aren't you playing God?
Some people just aren't supposed to have children.
Aren't you worried about the surrogate doing drugs?
Aren't you just using some poor women?
Aren't you being selfish?

Maybe, you should just get a puppy. That will cure everything.

I am sure that I have missed a bunch. Please add your thoughts in the comment section.

The Silent Majority

Surrogacy World is a very interesting place to be. In theory, there are two Intended Parents for every Surrogate. This means that Intended Parents out number Surrogates by 2 to 1.

However, even thought they are outnumbered by a 2 to 1 margin Surrogates and their views dominate Surrogacy World. There are Surrogate agencies and Surrogate websites that are all based upon the needs of the Surrogate.

What we find is that the IP's are the Silent majority on Surrogacy World. On a land full of people the IP's are isolated from the community at large.

The IP's are very limited to what they feel they are allowed to share on Surrogacy World.

It's almost impossible to find them speaking freely. And if you do they will usually be in a very small pack. They are a tight knit group that share their experiences among each other carefully.

Many of them live in states or countries that don't allow it or have friends of family that don't understand or support them in the process.

IP's do not feel like they have the right to free speech and take their thoughts and emotions underground. They don't know who to trust and protect themselves by remaining quite.

The Ip's are strangers in a strange land forced to struggle through on their own. They need to wander around aimlessly until they bump as if by accident into another IP. Then they will pin that IP and hold them down as long as possible to extract all of the information that they can from them.

It's a strange thing to see, but it happens to every newcomer to IVF Land and Surrogacy World.

As they continue on their adventure they meet new people from strange places and form strong bonds. Yes, they still stay silent, but they are no longer alone.

Hope and Desire Melt away Fear

On Friday, I wrote about IVF fears. These are fears that are based on the medical and scientific issues that are involved with the whole IVF part of the process.

A question that was asked was how do you move forward with IVF with all of the Fears that it brings to the party?

My answer is simple:

Your hopes and desire melt away the fears so that you can reach your dreams.

Your Pilot Today Will Be........

The Surrogate is your pilot and tour guide for the duration of your pregnancy.

She can take you on a trip like Mr. Toads Wild Ride that is full of bumps, jerks, and sharp turns.

Or, like The Magic Teacups with a never ending spin cycle.

Or, it can be like staying at a 5 star hotel or sailing on a high priced luxury liner. Where your needs are meet before you even knew you had them.

Your IVF fears are there no matter who the surrogate is because they are not under anyone's control. The facts and issues of IVF are what they are and can't be changes by anyone.

However, when you go on a trip your pilot and tour guide can help keep everything smooth or spin everything out of control.

Many times you can get on an airplane and be nervous to fly. It is bad weather outside and you don't know how this big plane really stays up in the air. Then your pilot comes on the air with a calm reassuring voice telling you that everything is going to be okay - and you can relax knowing that a responsible person will get you to your destination.

If you pilot came on the air and was in the middle of a panic attack - you would be trying to find out how to get off of the plane as fast as possible and fly on another carrier.

So if your pilot is under control and emotionally stable it helps you relax and enjoy the flight.

The surrogate has the same power and can keep you on the edge of your seat the whole time biting your nails or allow you to be calm and relax while they get you to your destination.

And if we can just get the surrogate to bring me cold fruity drinks the whole time on demand - now were talking a great trip. I think we need to have that added to the next contract.

Fears of IVF Land

I was asked does the Surrogate help relieve some of the fears that Intended Parents have during the process. Here is a list of fears that I have about going through IVF and Surrogacy that having nothing to do with who is the Surrogate.

Financial - Stands alone on the list - it is actually a part of almost every question.

Will it be successful?
IVF cost.
Time - Our eggs are in worse shape every month.
Time - How will all of the Doctor Appointments effect work?

Cost of optional procedures like ICSI or PGD. Are they a good buy?
Do they help our hurt? What about survival of the fittest?
How many embryos to transfer Fresh?
How many embryos to transfer frozen?
Selective Reduction?
Advantage/Disadvantage of Raising Twins and Twin Pregnancies? How about Triplets?
How do you feel about Embryo Donation or Stem Cell Research?

Did you get a negative beta?
Are you back to the starting line?
Are you down 15-20k or more?

Did the HPT come in positive?
What did the Beta say?
Did the Beta Double?
Did the Beta Double Again?
One or two? OR three and Four?

Is there a heart beat?
What is the heart rate?
Is the baby growing at the right rate?
How are the measurements?

How do you deal with all of these?
How do you feel about amniocentesis?
How do you feel about Congenital anomalies?
How do you feel about pregnancy complications?

Are you prepared to face:
Low birth weight
Premature Births
Death shortly after birth
NICU stays

Last on my list is - Do Friends/Family Approve?

And then finish with the Psychological and Emotional Cost of Infertility. With loads of isolation.

Experiencing Surrogacy, Part 2

I have been asked if I will my view will change from experiencing surrogacy to experiencing pregnancy after the Surrogate gets pregnant.

And I will say NO.

We have already had our first surrogate pregnant. We had the good news of twins, followed by the loss of the first twin at week 9 and the second one at week 11. So I have gone through the almost the entire first trimester being pregnant.

I was still Experiencing Surrogacy the whole time.

I have a cousin that was having a baby at the same time and their experience was noticeable different.

From the start we had weekly doctor visits. They had a few.

We new exactly when our babies were conceived, they had an idea when, but couldn't pin point it exactly.

We would go into Doctor's appointments knowing what was going to happen - what results to expect - what would be good, average, or bad.

They simply went to the Doctor's appointment.

The list of differences goes on, but the main thing is that our Surrogacy was so scientific and we were constantly trying to jump through the next hoop. To beat the odds and make it to the next stage.

It seemed like every doctor's appointment we would be told that we scaled the wall - only to be told there was another wall to be climbed. And with IVF in the end we need to be prepared for a visit to the NICU.

You go through a constant 2 steps forward 1 step back process and you never get to relax and enjoy it.

With all of the extra Doctor visits, monitoring and science that goes into our experience, I don't think that we are experiencing pregnancy. I think that Experiencing Surrogacy is a completely different adventure.

Experiencing Surrogacy, Part 1

When I mentioned that I was looking into India as a possible option for us, many of the responses I got back where - I could never go there because I have to experience the pregnancy.

I have been trying to figure out what that means.

To me I am not experiencing the pregnancy - I am experiencing surrogacy.

Back to a sports analogy.

There are three main groups involved in a basketball game. The players, coaches, and fans.

As a player, I am directly involved with the outcome. I have input on every play. I can feel my muscles ache, the blood flowing, and my heart pounding. I effect everything that happens.

As a coach, I am directly involved in the game, but I have a different role. I orchestrate everything, but someone else has to make it happen. I choose who gets to play and what plays are run. I effect somethings that happen through others.

As a fan, I show up just before tip-off. My first experience is fighting for a place to park, then the beer line. I support the team, I have very little effect on the outcome of the game. I watch what happens and cheer the team on.

On Surrogacy World, I would say that in most situations the surrogates are the players, the IM's are the coach, and the IF's are the fans.

We are all experiencing the game, but not in the same way. Our roles change how we view the event and shape our experience.

Don't Touch The Surro!

Don't touch the Surro is unwritten/unspoken rule #2.

At least from one IF's perspective this is a very hard and fast rule. And when I say don't touch the Surro I don't just mean physically. I mean don't talk to her either. Avoid eye contact if possible. Keep conversation to a minimum. Be polite, but not too personal. Be open, but don't share to much. AND don't ever be left alone with her.

Sure you can call me paranoid, but this is a radioactive situation. Nations have been built and wars fought over bad Traditional Surrogacy situations.

As guys, you girls have brainwashed us for years. Be happy, you won.

Starting when we are teenagers - we are told - you are in a relationship with me. Don't look at that girl. Don't you dare talk to her.

Now as an adult, I am in a solid relationship, yet another girl is carrying my child, and I am expected to skip over 25 years of programming???????

You must admit - you girls have us programmed well. The only IF's willing to talk are the gay couples, but since they don't have an IM in the mix do they really have a choice?

It seems to me that, with few exceptions, everyone that has an option let's the IM do the talking.

Now after the IM has introduced you to the surrogate and given you (IF) approval. This is usually unspoken also, you can talk to the Surro in limited situations. This is normally based on the divisions of tasks in your relationship with you IM.

Maybe the IF arranges all travel, flights, hotels, or Doctor appointments. This is the normal division of labor in their relationship so it naturally continues in this one. It will normally, be limited to planning or doing an activity.

For the most part though, as an IF we want to respect the IM first and then the Surrogate and her husband. And we are searching through our mind - where is the training on this subject? How do we behave? What is safe?

And we come up blank.

In our mind, if we don't know what is safe then we must expect that nothing is safe. Everything is off limits. The safe thing is to stay away.

Women of course love complex relationships and want to talk about their feelings and work things out.

As guys we go back to our teenage training for how to handle a new situation like this - Our dating experience is the closest thing that we can find.

So the rules that you girls gave us years ago are:

Pay complete attention to the girl your with. Acknowledge any other girl as little as possible. Talk only when required.

And the whole time, we pray that no one will asks us how we feel.

WE are not Broken

As I write this Blog I feel that I have a fine line to walk. My nature is to tell a positive story. I prefer to talk about what I want in life and where I am headed and I don't like to talk or focus on the negative. I prefer to keep my eye on the prize with a lazer sharp intensity.

Then people ask me questions or I write a post that is very thoughtful and describe some of the tough times that IP's go through. It might be my direct experience or I might be making a general statement about how IP's in general think or feel about a subject.

I continually think - I don't want to post that it makes me sound broken. And that is not the case.

Sure we have faced some tough struggles during our Adventure with Surrogacy and I don't want to downplay them, but we want to keep the focus on our future healthy children.

We do need someone to help carry a baby for us. It will take another person to make our family complete.

How many people have faced similar circumstances?

How many of you have your hands up? I believe that most of you should.

How many of you have needed someone to help "keep" your family complete?

I think every family has a similar story to tell. Someone has helped them and their family.

Let's take Surrogacy out of the equation and change it from a Surrogate helping to create a life to someone helping to save a life.

This list is endless. I have a cousin that is a lifeguard and he has saved many people from drowning. Maybe a Doctor, nurse, or paramedic has saved someone you love.

My dad had neighbors and firemen save his house last year during the San Diego fires. Last year, Christy's sister had cancer and doctor's helped cure her and keep her alive.

I can think of many stories about liver, kidney, or heart transplants that help keep people alive. It could be as simple as giving blood to help someone else live.

Yes, we need help to create a life, that might not be very common. Most of you though have had the experience where someone has helped your family by saving the life of someone you care about deeply.

They are very similar - people needing other people at their moment of need. When they are most vulnerable.

You see........ We are not broken. We are just human.


Everyone agrees that the Surrogate and the Intended Parents are on the same team and have the same goal that they are trying to achieve.

At times during the adventure though it often doesn't sound like the two groups are playing the same games and using the same rules. Where do things break down?

Let's get back to a good sports analogy. My specialty.

I think that the Surrogate and the Intended Parents relationship is very much like how a pitcher and catcher interact in baseball. In my example the Surrogate is the pitcher and the Intended Parents are the catcher.

The catcher (IP's) has the responsibility of running the team, setting up defenses, keeping everybody focused, and calling the pitches. This last part means that they will tell the pitcher what pitch to throw. For example, either a fastball, curveball, or slider.

Now the pitcher (Surrogate) looks at the catcher and gets the sign (instructions) for what pitch to throw. The pitcher has the ball (baby) in his hand. Nothing happens until the pitcher says so.

The pitcher often looks at the catcher and shakes his head "no" back at the catcher. He has the ball and will not be throwing that pitch.

Everyone is waiting on the pitcher, the catcher now changes the sign and the pitcher once again shakes his head "no".

Now the catcher is confused. He talked to the pitcher before the game and they have already discussed how they were going to pitch to this batter. The pitcher has changed his mind based on how he feels at the moment, not what he thought before he was on the moment.

The catcher has no choice at this point. Sure he is the leader of the team and he calls the pitches, but the pitcher has the ball, and nothing is happening at this point without him.

So the catcher calls for pitch #3 and the pitcher shakes his head "yes". And he delivers the pitch.

The thing with being part of a team is that one person doesn't always lead or need to carry all of the weight of the team. It is a shared experience, but not always an equal experience.

Just like in the example of the pitcher and catcher, both of them have the same goal to get the batter out, but they have entirely different roles in the process.

In a good balanced team all of the teammates take turns leading. And are ready to perform their specialty when required.

Surrogacy In India

Much has been said recently about Surrogacy in India. Most of it is by Surrogates or non-infertiles that don't have to face the need of using IVF and Surrogacy or leaving their country to have a child.

When I originally arrived on IVF Land on Surrogacy World India wasn't even in my sites. I never even gave it a thought. After being here for awhile I did have to look into that option. Any consumer making a major purchase would look into all of their options before buying.

So we go exploring, on the web, from the safety of my home to India to research the IVF cost.

The first shocking fact that I find out is that India was second by only a few weeks for the first IVF birth. They have been doing this for a very long time. Who Knew?

A major plus in the whole thing is that the Surrogate is changing our Family forever, and we are doing the same for hers. The amount of money that she is earning in relationship to her countries normal pay is life changing. How cool is that?

Many people want to attack the laws in India, but here in the USA we have 50 different states that each have their own pluses or minuses in regards to surrogacy. There are only a few true pro-surrogacy states.

However, in the end, India is just to far for us to travel. At the same time we will defend an IP that chooses this as the best way to go for their family.

Because I will tell you, if Mexico had the same situation going on as India with Surrogacy.

México, ¡allá voy!

That translates to: Mexico, I'm going there!

Go forth and multiple.

We really have one mission here from the beginning.

Go forth and multiple.

That is why we are here.

Our mission isn't to have a big house, nice car, or great career.

It is simply:

Go forth and multiple.

This is our number one drive in life. Our sex drive is all demanding.
That's because having children is our prime directive.

The requirements for our existence. In no particular order are:
Food, Water, Shelter, and to Procreate.

The Infetile search and wonder the world trying to meet this need, this hunger, this internal unstoppable command to:

Go forth and multiple.

Listen and You Will hear........

Listen and You Will hear...
the panic attack of an IP coming near.

A surro and her IP's go to the doctor for a check-up on the baby.

Do they hear the same thing?

Sure they both listen to the doctor, but do they walk away from
the appointment with the same expectations of what needs to be done
before the next visit? Or how healthy the baby is at this moment in time?

You have all heard of the book titled "Men are from Mars and Women
are from Venus". Can the same be said for IP's and Surro's?

You here the stories and what the two groups take away from their meeting with the doctor's
are often night and day. You talk to the IP and hear that the Surro has been placed on strict bedrest for 2 weeks and then you hear that the Surro played tennis all morning before going skiing in the afternoon.


I got to assume that the Surro wants to carry a healthy baby and thinks they are doing what the doctor told them.

Where is the disconnection happening?

Is it as simple as this example:

The doctor says "if this happens, then we will put you on bedrest for two weeks.
The Surro focuses on the word "if" - and goes that isn't happening right now so I am okay.
While the IP goes right to "we will put you on bedrest". Thinking to themselves "Why be risky let's just be safe and go straight to bedrest".

Here is my very unscientific thoughts on the matter.

The Surrogate usually comes in to this relationship with a completely different
background then the IP. Most of them have healthy kids and their pregnancies have
been easy for them.

Their pregnancies were not very complicated and sure things changed during the course
of the pregnancy, but without and major problems in their past - they expect things to go well.

The IP's on the other hand often have years of struggle behind them before they move
on to a Surrogacy journey. This is a scientific and medical journey for them. They are constantly
being told and are aware of the obstacles every step of the way.

For an IP, each check-up is another battle to win or lose. If things went well you take a deep breath and immediatly start analyzing the next battle. The IP thinks "sure there are blue skies here right now, but we need to be concerned with what is over the next hill".

Without carrying the baby the IP is only left with the medical information on how the baby is doing. Each drop of information is priceless and deeply held onto. Therefore, the IP's focus on every single word in the doctor's report.

So gentle reader, here is the write in participation part of the blog. This is where you can add your comment to the discussion.

Based on their background going into the pregnancy do the Surro and IP hear what the doctor says differently?

Do they both take away the same meaning and expectations from their doctor visits?

The Value of a Team

When we first started talking about using two surrogates at the same time the immediate thought is "this is going to be complicated". I mean working with one person was/is hard enough wouldn't working with two people be twice as hard? Or worse, would the problems even multiply and get completely out if hand?

By the end of the journey will I be asking to be locked in a padded room?

Now that we have been going down this path for awhile I see many advantages of using a team to build our family. Teams have common goals and a common purpose. If one person is struggling the other teammates can help lift them up. Each individual will add their special skills, ability, and personality to make a stronger team then they could be as individuals.

Here is a definition of what a team is:

A team comprises a group of people linked in a common purpose. Teams are especially appropriate for conducting tasks that are high in complexity and have many interdependent subtasks.
Teams normally have members with complementary skills and generate synergy through a coordinated effort which allows each member to maximize his or her strengths and minimize his or her weaknesses.

It is natural for peple to want to join teams. Everyone wants to be part of something that is bigger than themselves.

You see it right now in the Olympics where athletes that are paid millions to perform their sport are willing to play for free to join the team of their country.

As we work on growing and building a team for our next adventure in surrogacy I feel that it is easier for me to be involved. In our first go around Christy formed a friendship with another girl and they planned the pregnancy together. The whole world of pregnancy and surrogacy are not male domains, nor normal conversation for me. I wasn't excluded on purpose, it was just more natural for two women to hang out and talk about pregnancy.

Today we are building a team. I have been part of a team or building and coaching teams all of my life. It is a natural environment for me. One that I am very comfortable with participating in at every level.
I understand the dynamics of getting a group together to sacrifice for a common goal. How to get individuals to overcome challenges and obstacles to meet a group objective. And most importantly, how to help one another through the tough times, because there are always tough times along the way.

This type of interaction has always been a part of my daily life. I get it, I enjoy it, I thrive in it.

Congratulations Are in Order

This was just pointed out to me.

It took me 28 posts, but I finally wrote one that didn't have a sports analogy.

I promise to make up this omission with multiple sports analogies in a future post.

I will finish this post with a quote from Yogi Berra a baseball player and manager from the New York Yankees. Yogi said "You should always go to other people's funerals, otherwise, they won't come to yours".

One goal. One Mission. One Obsession.

You get the call.

It's not one of those calls that startles you awake in the middle of the night with an emergency, but just as scary to get, and the call confirms your worst fears.

The pregnancy test was negative.

Is it any surprise that Infertile people have a higher rate of depression than cancer patients? The only focus of their life has become achieving pregnancy.

One goal. One Mission. One Obsession.

With infertility you are in a daily fight to develop a life. It has strained friendships, finances and your relationship at times.

These couples know what it is like to spend a minimum of $15,000 on one month of infertility treatments, only to get a negative pregnancy test. They know the sting of hearing people ask why they don't just give up or adopt, when their greatest desire in the world is to create a baby with the person they love, just like everyone else.

Like soldiers in combat, the veterans of IVF and Surrogacy band together. They forge close friendships in the charged atmosphere where procreation is the battle.

You can read the blogs of the infertile were they list their struggles and the battles they have fought. Open reminders of the reality that they still don't have a baby.

They know how lives are postponed because of the emotional stress of infertility and the imbalance of not knowing whether it will be just the two of them next year or a family, at long last.

You are in a constant period of mourning, you just get to the point where you just want everything to be over, but the calling for a baby is overwhelming.

So with the negative call and the negative news you are weary, scared, and unsure of yourself.

With nothing but hopes and dreams in your heart you move forward again, with - One goal. One Mission. AND One Obsession.

Adventure of a Lifetime

There are some phrases that you here a lot on Surrogacy World. One of them is:

"Good Luck on your Journey"

Another one:

"I can't wait to follow your Journey".

I hear that phrase and I want to puke. It just sounds like such a feminine word and definitely not something that I want to be involved in as a male. That's were you lose us. It start right at the beginning - Journey is a women's definition of the experience.

"Journey to the center of the earth" was written in 1864 and is the only example that I can think of that is a journey that a man would be interested in going on. That is it!! One example.

When I hear a women speak about their journey I think of a quote:

Let them a journey new begin, But I at last with weary feet Will turn towards the lighted inn, My evening-rest and sleep to meet. — J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973), English Professor.

I journey is a trial and tribulation that wears you down. It is something that you need to recover from. Much more work then fun, full of drudgery - not excitement.

The word journey is a very heavy word to carry around. Go ahead and say the word journey right now. Notice how you let out a deep breath and sign and your shoulders drop. The word alone almost sends you into a depression.

Who wants to volunteer for a weary trip?

I prefer to use the word adventure.

We will try the same experiment with adventure - go ahead and say the word.
The word adventure is a happy word. Notice that when you say it you sit up straight and smile.
Your body stands at alert in excitement ready to move forward.

An adventure is exciting. There are challenges along the way that need to be overcome. You face highs and lows on the trip, but joke and laugh about them. You meet knew friends and go to new places. And at the end you get a reward.

Then I would add the word Lifetime because that describes my children's experience in the process. This adventure story doesn't end with a birth, that is really just the beginning of a lifetime of new adventures that a fresh young face will get to enjoy.

So if you want to wish me well do me a favor and wish me good luck on my:

Adventure of a Lifetime.

"The Talk" Part 2 - Genetic Engineering

This is Part 2 of "The Talk". Click here to read part 1 first.

The one question my mom kept asking in different ways - was - do you think it is okay to genetically engineer your children? These were some big words for my 8 year old mind to work on and as she described it I could only compare it to a bugs bunny cartoon called baseball bugs.

Here is some background about baseball bugs.

A baseball game is going on in New York City, at the Polo Grounds (although the rooftop facade is more suggestive of Yankee Stadium), between the visiting "Gas-House Gorillas" (a play on the Gashouse Gang nickname for the 1930s St. Louis Cardinals) and the home team, the "Tea Totallers". The game is not going well for the Tea Totallers, as the Gorillas - a bunch of oversized, roughneck players - are not only dominating the Totallers, made up of old men ("I'm only 93 and a half years old!", a joking reference to Fanny Brice's "Baby Snooks" character's catchphrase "I'm only 3 and half years old"), but intimidating the umpire by knocking him into the ground like a tent peg after an unpopular judgment. The old men's uniform style, complete with flat-topped cap, also suggests something from the 19th century. The Gorillas' home runs go screaming out of the ballpark (literally) and the batters form a conga line, with each hitter knocking a ball out.

Here is a link to the video if you would like to watch.

I will sum up the cartoon - the big guy dominates the little guy and then the smarter guy beats the bigger guy. Either way, I think that normally in life the bigger guy or the smarter guy are going to be the winners.

To get back to my moms question of would I want to genetically engineer my children. As an 8 year old watching Baseball Bugs I answered yes without a doubt if given the chance to choose I would want superior children.

Now as an adult going through IVF I am given the real option of making some choices about genetically engineer my children. We are not given as many choices as people think based on the media reports, but we are given some and people ask is it an ethical thing to do?

I have a simple question for them - if they went to their doctor and were given advice on how to help make their child have a healthier life would they not choose that option?

Everyone wants a healthy, happy, and intelligent baby. For me there is only one ethical answer.

"The Talk" Part 1

I think that everyone remembers when they first have "the talk".

For many people it is a very uncomfortable subject, they are confused about it, and don't really know what to say, what to ask, basically, it is just plain awkward.

Based on rumors, stories, and gossip it seems to me that the girl usually initiates "the talk" with the guy. She has done her research and is usually subtle at first and tries to play it off as a joke more then a serious discussion.

I remember that I first had "the talk" with my mom when I was about 8 or 9 years old. Sure I was young, but I was a fast learner and it wasn't even tough for me to talk about, you see I was way away from needing it for myself so there wasn't a lot of pressure on me.

The conversation is still fresh in my mind all these years later as I recall the first time that my mom asked me what I thought about a test tube baby. I will admit that I was confused on how a baby could fit inside a test tube, but everything else made since. At least to my young mind.

Even then - I thought that a baby was a baby - I had no idea that a baby could be controversial.

Why was this one baby such a big story? Looking back on the event now through my adult eyes, I guess that growing up in a test tube would be a very big story indeed.

This was part of my first discussion about IVF.

Lost and Found and Connections Abound

I just got listed as a new blog by Mel at Lost and Found and Connections Abound.

For those of you coming to my site for the first time here is a quick summary.

I am an Intended father writing about surrogacy from the straight males perspective.  It seems weird to need to add the word straight when describing myself, but all the male blogs that I can find on Surrogacy seem to be from a gay males perspective. 

Christy and I have been working on the baby project for around 2 years with many highs and lows. We are currently building our team for a new run. This time around we expect to have two surrogates at the same time which will help make it an exciting ride for everyone.

This is the background for our story. Please read some of my posts and feel free to ask me some questions.

$2 Million per month - missing

A few posts ago I talked about my family history and how it was important to have by children born in America to keep them attached to their roots. A few of the comments that people gave back to me where - I have never thought that far into the future and how my being a Surrogate really leaves a lasting impression on someone's life.

To me it is clear that where my child is born changes their life story and their children's life story.

Well I have a story about how simple decision's by one person can change a families life forever. This is not a bitter story for me, but just a perfect example on how one small change in your life can affect everyone else down the line.

My Great-Great Grandma was 100% Cherokee Indian and my Great-Great Grandfather was reportedly at least 50% Cherokee Indian. Now in their time around the 1890's American Indian's were not being treated very well.

So my Great-Great Grandfather made a decision. I am going to claim to be a white man and move my family off of the reservation. This will be a better life for my family then face the repression and discrimination of being an Indian and living on the reservation.

It was probably a life or death decision for them.

Now fast forward to today. The Indian's have Casino's and are bringing in Millions of dollars that they are passing out to their tribe members. I am not sure about all of the tribes, but you can read stories in the paper that the dividends for members can be in the $20,000 - $30,000 per month range.

With that kind of money at stake the tribes have become very picky on choosing who they recognize as members. They are going back to the reservation roles of 1900 to determine who is a member of the tribe and you need to be a specific percentage of Indian blood.

The family line from my Great-Great Grandma and Great-Great Grandpa is easily over 100 people. That means that if we were all recording our family would get $2 million per month for being Cherokee.

Well they had moved off of the reservation before 1900 so there are no records of us. We missed out on the jackpot by 10 years.

The Long Wait - Part 1 -Sarah and Abraham

Sarah and Abraham are always brought up as the first Surrogate story. What is the Story?

I will tell it in over a few posts. We will start with the son that Abraham and Sarah have together without using a surrogate.

In Genesis, God promised Abraham that he would make a great nation of him.

Well, clearly to make a great nation from someone, would require having at least one child to carry on your line! And when they are young, this would have seemed like no big deal most likely to Abraham and his wife Sarah. I mean, maybe they were getting a little up there in years, but a baby still was possible. So they obey God, set out for the promised land, and wait for a son.

And they wait. And they wait, and they wait. Over 10 years goes by and still no baby. God revisits Abraham in chapter 15 and tells him “I am your shield and your very great reward.” Abraham asks how that can be since he doesn’t have a son, and God reaffirms that he will have a son.

Here’s where we get this great line “Abraham believed the Lord; and the Lord reckoned it to him as righteousness.”

God comes through, however, it take another 13 years.

God shows up to Abraham again. Abraham is now 99. He was 75 when he first heard God’s promise and set out for the land that God would show him. This is actually where God changes Abraham’s name from Abram to Abraham and Sarai to Sarah. The implication here is that Abraham in the very meaning of his name will be the father of a multitude, and Sarah, which means princess, will be the mother of this nation.

I love that God changes their names before the promise comes true. He changes their names to reflect how he sees them, how he’s going to bless them.

I think it also shows how the struggle to have a child changes who your are, how they see each other and the world.

So how does Abraham respond?

He laughs. In fact, this is the first known case of ROFL, that’s Rolling On Floor Laughing for you non-texters out there. It says he “fell on his face laughing.”

And God apparently ignores this, and just goes right on with the promise, appearing sometime later at Abraham’s tent, where it’s pitched under the oaks of Mamre, where we pick up the story today.

The Lord shows up to Abraham and Abraham hustles to prepare a meal for his guest, presumably not knowing who has decided to wait on him that day. But God’s business that day is really with Sarah, even though for whatever reason he decides to go with the customs of the day and not talk to her face to face. In verse nine, when he asks “Where is your wife, Sarah?” this isn’t because he needs information. I mean even a regular guest could probably have figured out where Sarah was, after all, it was the heat of the day, and those cakes had come from somewhere, so in the tent is a logical assumption.

But God asks this so that Sarah will know that what he’s about to say is directed at her. And he tells her she’s going to have a son.

And she laughs.

Can we blame her for laughing? I mean, this isn’t exactly the first time that Sarah has heard this promise from God. In fact, she’s been hearing it for nearly twenty-five years now. She’s been disappointed with this particular promise and now it’s not only unlikely, it’s physically impossible. The text clearly tells us that Sarah is past menopause.

And she’s thinking, right, a little too late now, God. A couple of years ago even, but I mean you’ve had twenty-five years to do something about this and you come back now? When I’m physically past all that sort of thing, and you still want me to believe this? I’ve been believing for twenty-five years, okay so more or less believe, but me, have a baby? I’m old and worn out!

This verb that’s used here means that Sarah laughed to herself or within herself. God shows his identity by knowing what’s going on even though she’s standing behind him and didn’t make any audible noise.
Now, much has been made of this next section, why does God seem to rebuke Sarah for laughing when he didn’t rebuke Abraham, and things of that sort, but I don’t get that sense from it.

Try this sort of tone on for size:

God: Sarah, why did you laugh, don’t you know nothing is too hard for me.

Sarah: I didn’t laugh.

God: Oh yes, you did laugh!

I mean try to say that “Oh yes you did laugh” part without smiling. It’d be hard! Which is why I don’t see this as the sort of harsh reprimand that it’s often read as. I think that God is laughing with them as he anticipates what he’s going to do for them.

First of all, Isaac means “He laughs” and I have to kind of wonder if the he’s supposed to be God. Secondly, in chapter 21 when Sarah gives birth to Isaac, she says “god has brought laughter for me; everyone who hears will laugh with me.”

See, laughter isn’t always just a sort of “haha” laughter, or a derisive sort of laughter. The kind of laughter Sarah’s talking about here is a deep, joyful laughter, a laughter that emerges when a smile just doesn’t go far enough.

God takes Sarah’s internal snort of hopelessness and turns it into a deep, lasting laughter because he fulfills his promise to her, not on any sort of time frame that she would have imagined, but right in his perfect time. And when God fulfills his promise, and he always does, there’s always cause for deep laughter.

It won’t be in our timing, and it won’t be by the methods we devise to help God along. But whatever it is, and whenever it shows up, it will be worth the wait.

Building A Winning Team

When we started on Surrogacy World we were new comers with no clue how to find our way around. We didn't have any answers - and even worse - we didn't even know what questions to ask.

How do you even know where to begin? IVF world has very few Intended Parents that are willing to speak. If you just look at your normal gossip magazine you will see many Hollywood stars having twins at an advanced age - magically.

As first time IP's we want with a first time surrogate and figured that we can all learn at the same speed.

Now as we head into our second journey we want seasoned veterans like ourselves. No Rookies for us this time around.

At the start our team was two people entering the vast unknown world of IVF and Surrogacy.

As 5th year senior's we are better prepared for everything that is coming our way. Plus, our team has grown and is very experienced and knowledgeable about Surrogacy World. This adds to our comfort level.

We have started an IP message board with over 100 members. We have a support group of Smurfs that have done it all.

The family team consists of 2 ips, 2 Surrogates, 2 surrogates husbands, the surrogates children, a PIG, everybody's grandma and grandpa, Aunt's and Uncles.

The support team includes our friends that our on their own journey as we share the highs and lows of the experience. Our fans include Smurf's and Wim's and many others.

The medical team will include the RE and his staff, 2 OB's and their staff, maybe a Peri or two, the hospital staff at the birth, and some insurance reps chasing everybody around like Sambo.

As you can see the team is very large and growing everyday. This is a developing team and we need to place everyone in a position where they can be successful - so that our team can be successful.

We are building a special team for a special journey.

Twins Born to Two Different Moms

This is the story we are looking for - except we will have two surro's carrying the children.

Miracle Twins Born to Two Different Moms

Embryos Were Implanted in Biological Mom and Surrogate

Twin brothers born to different mothers? It sounds impossible.

Surrogate Angel Willis, left, and Kathy and Ray Payne celebrate the recent births of twins Connor and Cameron Payne.
(ABC News)

But thanks to the reproductive advancements of surrogacy and in vitro fertilization, twins Connor and Cameron Payne were born to different mothers 16 days apart in different hospitals.

Kathy and Ray Payne wanted children and had tried for eight years to make it happen. After numerous fertility treatments, implanted embryos and miscarriages, they were ready to pursue adoption. But then a doctor suggested they try again to have a biological child with a surrogate, using Ray's sperm and embryos from Kathy's eggs.

Kathy Payne found Angel Willis, a 29-year-old mother of three, on a surrogacy Web site. They met, went out for dinner and agreed to give surrogacy a try. Then the Paynes' doctor proposed transferring two embryos into Payne and Willis at the same time.

"My initial answer was no," Payne said. "We had tried my body seven times, and it didn't take. So I was willing to have Angel carry our baby for us. I had come to grips with that … and the doctor suggested giving my body one more shot."

Miracles 16 Days Apart

So Payne reluctantly agreed, and both she and Willis learned they were pregnant on the same day. Both women gave birth in June, a little more than two weeks apart. Kathy Payne gave birth to Connor Ray Payne on June 12; Angel Willis gave birth to Cameron Clark Payne on June 28. The boys are considered fraternal twins

Willis suggested she had mixed feelings after she gave up Cameron. But she said she never considered him her baby.

"We loved Cameron -- my husband and I loved him," Willis said. "So, yeah, for a week I was like, 'What do I do with myself now?' But he was where he needed to be, where we always wanted him to be, and he's their baby. And the greatest blessing was seeing Ray holding him and their mom."

Willis said her love for her children inspired her to become a surrogate mother.

"They were such a blessing to my husband and me, and we just thought God has blessed us so much, let's try to give back," Willis said. "I enjoy being pregnant. It's just something my husband and I both have a passion for."

The "Dean Scream"

I think that there are clearly defined rules - some spoken and some unspoken.

For example, if someone showed up at the beach in a tuxedo they would not be breaking any rules. However, everyone there would give them a lot of space and wonder if the person is mentally okay.

Because they broke the social norm everyone would be very leary of them.

How many surro's out there want to help a mentally unstable person have a baby?

When I am posting I can't help but think of Howard Dean and the "Dean Scream". Howard Dean was the front runner of the Democratic party for president when he made this speech.

Not only are we going to New Hampshire, Tom Harkin, we're going to South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico, and we're going to California and Texas and New York ... And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan, and then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House! Yeah!

This final "Yeah!", with its unusual tone that Dean later said was due to the cracking of his hoarse voice, has become known in American political jargon as the "Dean Scream".

One word out of a lifetime of speeches in the wrong tone knocked him out of the race and cost him his dream.

Your tone and reflection add so much to a conversation and are often missing when you write.

Without being able to find any guidance from other men that have gone before me in sharing their views on the Surrogacy journey and the fact that people can't tell my tone when they are reading my writing - I will be treading lightly as I work to find my voice on the subject.

I do appreciate all the support and positive feedback that everyone has given me, however, I want to make sure that I am only wearing a tux at the right times and occasions.

To Speak or Not to Speak

The land mines are all over the place and anything you say can hurt someone's feelings.

Speaking to a women is Dangerous to begin with no matter the subject. And think of the fun topics we get to discuss.

A women's weight, age, and medical history. OH MY!

This is the normal conversation (normally taboo) and as an IF I am supposed to know what is off limits. We have already crossed all of the limits and that is just about the surrogate.

Then we get to start to talk about IVF. That has to be a safer topic right?

No! It's filled with thoughts about religion, politics, money, and sex.

To not speak is safe. You can't upset anyone by keeping your mouth shut.

A Man's Point of View

Alright, here is a pet peeve that I just realized today. I am looking for a blog any blog or article about surrogacy from a Man's point of view. Basically, I am looking for a cheat sheet for topic points - what areas of IVF and Surrogacy are safe for a guy to talk about?

So I google Men and Surrogacy, Men's views on Surrogacy, and Intended Fathers and Surrogacy. Then a bunch of other combinations and here is what I found:

1) Any Men's views was limited to gay men.

2) I can induce lactation and breast feed my child.

I find both of these disturbing. Sure there is a place for everyone in this process and gay men can have their views and their baby, but as a straight man, how is our voice so limited on the subject?

And the thought of males breast feeding is a picture that I don't want in my mind.thumbsdown%5B1%5D.gif

Everyone here will just have to deal with me as I put my foot in my mouth and say the wrong thing at times, because it is very clear that there is no guidance for me. biggrin.gif

Announcing our Surro's

The voting has been complete and we have our Surro's names. These out the names that I will be using on my blog.

Ajysyt and Isis.

Ajysyt - The literal meaning is "Birthgiver". You can pronounce it as asia-sit.

She is the Mother goddess of the Turkic Yakut people from the Lena River region of Siberia.

Ajysyt was responsible for conducting the soul of a newborn child to its birth and attended every birth. She kept a golden book in which she recorded each one. She is said to have lived in a mountain, from which she controlled the fate of the world.

In legend she appeared to a white youth out of the roots of the Cosmic Tree (or world pillar of Yryn-al-tojon) which itself stood beside a lake of milk. By suckling the youth from her breasts she caused his strength to increase a hundredfold.

Isis - Her name literally means "queen of the throne."

One of the most important female deities, Isis was the protectress of motherhood, healer of the sick, and protectress of women.

She also rules magic - especially protection and healing.

Sick with grief concerning the murder of her husband Osiris by his brother Set, Isis reconstructed and reanimated his corpse long enough for it to impregnate her with their only son Horus.

Ancient Egyptians believed that the Nile flooded every year because of her tears of sorrow for her dead husband, Osiris. Her methods for getting pregnant and having a child were unconventional, but many people think that our methods are unconventional as well.

Her story does show how far someone will go to have a baby. She was determined and committed to making it happen. It could be thought of as an early version of IVF.